All things PVP, electric boogaloo

[AlyciaSimp]

Aight, as no one wants to open it and i know jack is waiting for this I'm just gonna start it

Please, be respectful of others, and no need to make this personal

Use the thread to talk about what you would want to see in the pvp

I'm probably not gonna talk a lot here myself but this is the kind of stuff that if someone elses open this kind of threads no one wants to open it lmao
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AAAAanyways, quick sum up of whats already been talked (please, correct me if im wrong)

- Legendaries are not gonna be usable in pvp
- Confirmed fairy type

Please, if you have any sugestion, please, use THIS LINK, and hit me up on discord(cl3ar) / send a edit request with the sugestion to edit it

 

[Jack]

In Alycia's FAQ Post, the following details have been clarified:

• Our Pokémon pool will initially be Generations I through IV.
• PokéForce will feature Generation 7 mechanics (so Fairy-types, etc).
• We don't plan to initially include Mega-evolution or Z-Moves, we do plan to support them eventually.

Additionally, as stated above:

• Legendary Pokemon will not be usable for competitive PvP.

 

[Dontea]

Can you guys explain the logic behind not allowing any of the "legends" in PvP?

Many "regular" Pokemon outperform and in some cases have higher BST such as the lake trio being sub 600 BST.

This feels like a lore/PvE reason that limits and impacts PvP disproportionately. I totally understand the 600+ BST or some iconic legends being gated but a blanket limit on Legends is just a straight up mistake from my viewpoint.

 

[Jack]

Can you guys explain the logic behind not allowing any of the "legends" in PvP?

Many "regular" Pokemon outperform and in some cases have higher BST such as the lake trio being sub 600 BST.

This feels like a lore/PvE reason that limits and impacts PvP disproportionately. I totally understand the 600+ BST or some iconic legends being gated but a blanket limit on Legends is just a straight up mistake from my viewpoint.

It's a lore/PvE decision that we have taken to ensure appropriate variety in end-game content.

This decision was made fairly early on in the design process and would be almost impossible to change without redesigning the entire campaign from the ground up; as well as changing some core decisions around features and end-game content that have been designed with those assumptions in mind.

Unfortunately, this is just one of those cases where we can't please everyone. Lots of players are going to want capturable Legendary Pokemon, and we have tried to factor that into our design process through the King-of-the-Hill feature, which comes out of Legendary Dungeons.

Owning Legendary Pokemon outright is unfortunately not up for discussion, due to the above reasons.

This topic has also been touched on in this post.

 

[Dontea]

Ye, I just don't see how this is an either or, why can't you have both limited time capture legends from dungeons as well as capturable variants? The development of these systems can't be so far along that some kind of deviation is impossible.

It seems silly to value a Mespirit and Mewtwo equally. You can still make capturable legends feel special, and even enhance the end game content variety by making some catchable and some exclusive king of the hill. Your current system is creating less potential end game variety than having unique quests or ways to obtain/capture legends.

Doesn't this also run into issues between legendary Pokemon like why would I want a limited time ownership of base articuno that's basically -1 Pokemon in my party. What is the purpose of fighting over that if somebody else has Mewtwo, why do I want a random Articuno? Unless you are buffing the underpowered legends it basically makes the PvP viable legends aka the ones not ban worthy/in ubers that people want access to, the least desirable dungeons or mons to fight over since they are inherently the weakest.

In the event that you are buffing the weaker legends why not just make base variants accessible?

Pokemon has so many legends that you really don't have to pick and choose between grouping them all in the same categories of functioning the same. You can still have plenty of dungeon variety with just the uber tier legends.

 

[kiwi]

It's a lore/PvE decision that we have taken to ensure appropriate variety in end-game content.

This decision was made fairly early on in the design process and would be almost impossible to change without redesigning the entire campaign from the ground up; as well as changing some core decisions around features and end-game content that have been designed with those assumptions in mind.

can you elaborate on this? because if you think endgame content it's going to be easy if legends are around you are dead wrong

 

[Jack]

Ye, I just don't see how this is an either or, why can't you have both limited time capture legends from dungeons as well as capturable variants? The development of these systems can't be so far along that some kind of deviation is impossible.

It seems silly to value a Mespirit and Mewtwo equally. You can still make capturable legends feel special, and even enhance the end game content variety by making some catchable and some exclusive king of the hill. Your current system is creating less potential end game variety than having unique quests or ways to obtain/capture legends.

Doesn't this also run into issues between legendary Pokemon like why would I want a limited time ownership of base articuno that's basically -1 Pokemon in my party. What is the purpose of fighting over that if somebody else has Mewtwo, why do I want a random Articuno? Unless you are buffing the underpowered legends it basically makes the PvP viable legends aka the ones not ban worthy/in ubers that people want access to, the least desirable dungeons or mons to fight over since they are inherently the weakest.

In the event that you are buffing the weaker legends why not just make base variants accessible?

Pokemon has so many legends that you really don't have to pick and choose between grouping them all in the same categories of functioning the same. You can still have plenty of dungeon variety with just the uber tier legends.

We will be valuing a Mespirit and Mewtwo equally because all Legendary Pokemon will be truly Legendary in PokeForce.

The mechanics behind the ownership of the Legendary in the King-of-the-Hill feature will likely involve an extra party slot, rather than forcing the player to sacrifice one of their main slots.

We will have plenty of variety because all Legendary Pokemon will be locked behind the Legendary Dungeon mechanic. This is how it fits in with the lore we are building our world around.

Again, I appreciate that this isn't going to be a situation where everyone will be pleased. Some want access to Legendary Pokemon on a more permanent basis. There are other games where you can do that. PokeForce isn't that game.

 

[SinZy]

It's a lore/PvE decision that we have taken to ensure appropriate variety in end-game content.

This decision was made fairly early on in the design process and would be almost impossible to change without redesigning the entire campaign from the ground up; as well as changing some core decisions around features and end-game content that have been designed with those assumptions in mind.

Unfortunately, this is just one of those cases where we can't please everyone. Lots of players are going to want capturable Legendary Pokemon, and we have tried to factor that into our design process through the King-of-the-Hill feature, which comes out of Legendary Dungeons.

Owning Legendary Pokemon outright is unfortunately not up for discussion, due to the above reasons.

This topic has also been touched on in this post.

So other than lore, intransigence and laziness you don't have a solid reason to not have sub legendaries in the game for pvp uses. You are willing to go all in on story which is the least important aspect of any pokemmo by deminishing gameplay which is the most important aspect of a pokemmo.

 

[Jack]

So other than lore, intransigence and laziness you don't have a solid reason to not have sub legendaries in the game for pvp uses. You are willing to go all in on story which is the least important aspect of any pokemmo by deminishing gameplay which is the most important aspect of a pokemmo.

If it was intransigence, I would not be having open communication about this topic. But thank you for teaching me a new word today.

Perhaps we need to read my post again and understand this comes from a mixture of reasoning, not just lore/world-building. The Legendary Dungeon mechanic being the main one; the Raid feature being another (admittedly not previously mentioned outside of the community Discord).

Your argument that PvP is the most important aspect of a Pokemon MMO is extremely revealing. Some players would agree with you, others would not.

This game is designed to appeal to a wide range of players, not just the Pokemon MMO PvP community. Perhaps Pokemon Showdown would be more your speed?

 

[Aibbon]

From a lore/PVE perspective this does make sense. There are plenty legendary Pokémon that can and will make end game trivial.

However there are some legendary Pokémon that are mediocre in PvP most certainly.

With this is mind, maybe it's not out of the realm of possibility in the future for the Game Devs to implement certain capturable legendary Pokémon?

I definitely understand the reasons why the answer is no at launch though. & I agree with those reasons.

About the KOTH format, @Jack can you post your idea of how the KOTH style will work PokéForce style if it's available to release?

 

[kiwi]

From a lore/PVE perspective this does make sense. There are plenty legendary Pokémon that can and will make end game trivial.

okay then remove pokemon like garchomp, starmie and stuff like that that will make endgame a breeze

 

[Aibbon]

okay then remove pokemon like garchomp, starmie and stuff like that that will make endgame a breeze

They won't make end game a breeze. Have faith that the devs wouldn't release end game content that you could truly blow past with 1 or 2 pokes.

 

[kiwi]

They won't make end game a breeze. Have faith that the devs wouldn't release end game content that you could truly blow past with 1 or 2 pokes.

considering they think pokemon like birds/dogs/lake trio are busted and will make endgame easy yeah im pretty sure the actual good mons will destroy endgame easily

 

[Aibbon]

considering they think pokemon like birds/dogs/lake trio are busted and will make endgame easy yeah im pretty sure the actual good mons will destroy endgame easily

That isn't the case. The devs understand and listen to all of our feedback. They know that some legendary mons are weak compared to regular mons. So if the dev explained there is a lore reason to it, got to trust the process.

Lore is important in the world of an MMO. Let's see what they come up with.

 

[kiwi]

That isn't the case. The devs understand and listen to all of our feedback. They know that some legendary mons are weak compared to regular mons. So if the dev explained there is a lore reason to it, got to trust the process.

Lore is important in the world of an MMO. Let's see what they come up with.

gameplay trumps all and im not talking about pvp, there are people that enjoy shiny hunting, breeding, doing e4 reruns whatever but you wont see anyone say ''yeah i actually enjoyed the lore of this game'' when it will most likely just be a rerun of a game we all already played and once you beat it trhere is no more lore, i could actually understand this if this was a game made from scratch but since it requires roms to run thats already not a possibility

 

[Aibbon]

gameplay trumps all and im not talking about pvp, there are people that enjoy shiny hunting, breeding, doing e4 reruns whatever but you wont see anyone say ''yeah i actually enjoyed the lore of this game'' when it will most likely just be a rerun of a game we all already played and once you beat it trhere is no more lore, i could actually understand this if this was a game made from scratch but since it requires roms to run thats already not a possibility

You make some points there.

All I'm saying is if the dev stated there is no way to budge on capturable legendary at this point in time, we should give them the benefit of the doubt and see what they come up with.

 

[Dontea]

We will be valuing a Mespirit and Mewtwo equally because all Legendary Pokemon will be truly Legendary in PokeForce.

The mechanics behind the ownership of the Legendary in the King-of-the-Hill feature will likely involve an extra party slot, rather than forcing the player to sacrifice one of their main slots.

We will have plenty of variety because all Legendary Pokemon will be locked behind the Legendary Dungeon mechanic. This is how it fits in with the lore we are building our world around.

Again, I appreciate that this isn't going to be a situation where everyone will be pleased. Some want access to Legendary Pokemon on a more permanent basis. There are other games where you can do that. PokeForce isn't that game.

Noy trying to be as difficult as possible despite how this response will sound, but you didn't really address the major arguments I made.

What does "truly legendary" mean and why does having a truly legendary Mespirit or suicune mean I can't have a normal one?

Edit: How does limiting availability actually enhance the game/variety? Also explain how just having more dungeons is more variety than a bunch of dungeons + other quests/unique areas/puzzles etc?

Why should all legends be gated by the exact same type of content?

 

[kiwi]

All I'm saying is if the dev stated there is no way to budge on capturable legendary at this point in time, we should give them the benefit of the doubt and see what they come up with.

then why open this thread if they are not open for discussion, might as well remove it and let them do what they want without having any feedback from the playerbase this way noone loses his time trying to argue why their decision is a bad idea

 

[HazeYeager]

King of the hill does not fit into lore either, feels kinda weird that legendary pokemon with godly power are being swapped around by every 10 year old trainer like a ping pong ball or a yugioh card everytime one of them looses a battle. Making them be extremely rare like 1/100k odds would make more sense in my opinion, if you ever found one it would truly feel legendary. I don't think making them static encounters is good but King of the hill is not the way to do it, why bother if you can't keep them?

 

[Aibbon]

then why open this thread if they are not open for discussion, might as well remove it and let them do what they want without having any feedback from the playerbase this way noone loses his time trying to argue why their decision is a bad idea

This thread is a discussion for various topics not just this specific one. You are free to continue voicing your thoughts so long as it's respectful, but since Jack already confirmed there is no turning back from not having legendary mons at this time I feel it may be a mute point to continue.